Family matters

Comments

• !!??''If you don't like it here go back to your own country" ??

  Not a very nice comment in my opinion. But for some reason it does not surprise me. Catalan economy benefits a lot by all the foreigners living here. So a little open-mindedness is desirable. But I agree that if Catalan is the main language it should be also in public schools. However since this is still Spain I believe Spanish should at least be thought at the same level as Catalan. And there is no harm in doing a crash course catalan just to keep up with your kid. Speaking catalan does open a lot of doors I suppose.

  Posted by Dirk Meijer April 04, 2012 22:33:33

• We can all express our opinions!

  I agree with Eva that moaning about the country you choose to live in is not necessarily very constructive. However, if you are informed, involved and paying taxes then I don't see anything wrong with having an opinion. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise. I've lived here for many years and love many things about being here. However, if there's something I don't like, as a tax-paying resident I'm not sure why I should keep quiet just because I'm not from here.

  Posted by PJ67 March 28, 2012 14:31:45

• If you don't like it here go back to your own country

  I was born here, I grew up here and I studied in Scotland, my husband is Scottish. It really annoys me when people come over here and moan about the educational sistem, if you dont like it, why are you still here? Nobody is making stay. As well as this, to some ignorant folk, if you go to school here you learn from an early age, catalan, castellano, english and french. It is important to learn languages not like in the UK which most of the population think "never mind everybody speaks English".
  Would you move to Wales and moan that you have to learn school in welsh instead of English, no you wouldn't.

  Posted by Eva Martinez (AKA King) March 26, 2012 19:02:03

• Another kind of 50/50 (sort of)

  Berlin has a Mandarin-German primary school; New York has French-English, Korean-English and Russian-English schools; San Francisco has Cantonese-English; Melbourne has Japanese-English. In each case, the school system has taken advantage of the presence of many children who speak a foreign language at home to create an immersion environment for local children. It's win-win-win: the speakers of a foreign language benefit from becoming fully literate in their home language, the local children gain real fluency in a foreign language, and both groups gain inasmuch as bilingualism enriches them cognitively. Whatever one's take on the Spanish/Catalan debate, the issue of the Catalan school's system *not* adopting English as a language of instruction for, say, 40% of contact hours in a few dual-language immersion schools deserves discussion. English, together with other key languages, has enough of a demographic base here to be of real service to this society, in its schools. What Berlin is doing with Mandarin, Barcelona could be doing with English. If you're interested in these questions, please check out the web page for the English-Speaking Children's Parents' Association (https://sites.google.com/site/catangloampa/).

  Posted by John Stone October 18, 2011 23:17:44

• Hypercritical

  I just find it so hypercritical from most of the catalan politicians to be fighting for Catalan to be taught as the primary language in schools, when the majority of their children attend foreign schools, such as the French, German, Swiss, American and British schools. But I guess it is ok because their children learn Catalan at home?? I too use a translator and have my child taking 5 languages at 6 years old.

  Posted by mtorres63 October 12, 2011 22:17:05

• There is no "spanish" language

  Please don't call Castilian "Spanish" -- there is no official language in Spain!

  Posted by Tom October 07, 2011 21:20:26

• immersion questions

  I am happy that our children have the opportunity to learn 2 languages besides the English we speak at home. Research shows time and time again that it is only doing great things for their brains.
  As a parent, I decided to live here and have my children here, and the issue of schooling in a language other than my own was an issue- because I do love English and the doors it opens for them.
  I can only imagine the Catalan people feel just as deep a love and respect for their own language, so I can understand why schooling is in Catalan.
  I do feel that the school system would be enriched by more content based learning happening in Spanish and indeed English, but after living through a dictatorship in which people were forbidden to learn in their language or indeed speak it- I can also understand the Catalans reluctance to change a schooling system which has produced competent Catalan and Spanish speakers/writers/readers.
  As to helping with homework, I am glad to have a dictionary, a computer and a bunch of native speakers near by in case of needing help (which hasn't happened yet).
  

  Posted by justanothermother October 07, 2011 15:05:07

• Languages are important!

  Great comment Kati, could not agree with you more.

  Posted by Susanna October 07, 2011 15:02:59

• so many perspectives

  Just want to say thanks to everyone for giving your perspectives. For one of my next columns I plan to interview a mother who has had both the International school, and the local Catalan school experiences (she had one child in each)- it should be interesting to hear what is was like for her!

  Posted by Johanna October 07, 2011 14:53:39

• languages are important!

  we have just moved here from South of Spain and our kids started in public school as well. Scandikids, p3 and 1st grader, did not understand a word of Catalan. After 1 week they love the school, got new friends and are extremely happy there. Languages do count. Since we already had 2 languages at home, it is much more easier for them to understand and learn. They get by with the little spanish they knew, little english they knew.. and are now learning Catalan. When you add here Swedish and Finnish they learned from home... Im thinking world is theirs. Languages are so important. Spanish, Catalan, French, German, English- all of it . Lets be happy for our kids for every single language they will learn as kids. It will just make their life richer than ours!

  Posted by kati October 07, 2011 11:13:40

• choices

  Interesting to read all the comments and it's clear how many differing opinion(s) regarding the Catalan/Spanish language--both in schools and the world at large--there are. But for the majority of Catalans, who have roots and lived a history many of the folks writing have only read or heard about, it is a good exercise to consider your own cultures/languages and how integral they are in forming your (and your children's) identity. A 50-50 language option might make sense to some, but this is Catalunya, where the official language is Catalan. Why live in a place that makes you angry, unhappy and resentful if you have the means to live elsewhere? As one comment states, there are many other interesting places in this world to call home--where Catalan is not spoken.

  Posted by October 07, 2011 10:58:00

• hello?

  So kids educated in Catalan come out at the end speaking and writing in Spanish as well as any other kid in the country..
  
  Yet kids who opt for a Spanish school (presuming said school followed a bi-lingual model) would never learn Catalan correctly?
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Posted by suzannewales@gmail.com October 06, 2011 23:34:17

• Catalan

  Just chill people, your kids will speak spanish just fine, my parents didn't know catalan when i was in school they could not help with homework your kids will eventually figure it out. Besides catalan it's not that different from spanish.
  
  Since when is knowledge become a burden 11 million people speak the language, should Holland schools not teach deutch because is "only" spoken by 5 million people ?

  Posted by Ana October 06, 2011 21:51:46

• Bilingual

  Shouldn't a bilingual part of Spain have school instruction in both languages, hence integrating with society, community etc...

  Posted by Rachel October 06, 2011 19:59:33

• catalan/castellano

  Hi How many hours do we spend debating this heated but important issue? Why not teach 50/50 Spanish and Catalan? Then everyone is happy. It seems so obvious. And most importantly, the children get the best of both worlds. All the teachers are bilingual. Books could be in either language. I personally don't believe stats that say kids in schools in Catalonia test better in Spanish - who compiles these after all? More importantly, if you are worried about Catalan disappearing, this would be a good way to preserve it and end the criticism that Spanish was discriminated against. If you are a foreigner with a foreign partner like me, Spanish is always going to be more important. But fitting in is important for the kids, so it is equally useful to have Catalan. It is sad, but more foreigners are put off living here by the instransigence of the authorities on this question. I base this on many conversations with foreigners who were offered jobs here but because they have children prefer to go for jobs elsehwere - often Madrid. Who's losing out Catalona?

  Posted by graham October 06, 2011 15:12:35

• Going forward or closing in?

  We are in spain, we should be able to choose to go to a spanish school if we so prefere, no matter in which area of spain we live, be it catalunya, andalucia, galicia or anywhere. Those who, in any comunidad autonoma, whant to learn the local language, should be able to have that choice too.
  I am not in favour of imposing a language. The effect in the long run is negative.
  Me and many others who have lived here for a long time, can only think of the happy day we will be able to leave.
  I have to pay a lot of money we dont necessarily have to alow my children to go to a 100% english school. As there is no option for spanish.
  My children already have to learn, spanish, english, german and french, as those are the languages in the family. Catalan as you can imagine is the least important of those and just an other stress to deal with.
  The erasmus students at the universitat de catalunya are poorly informed of the language use aswell. I have been asking around and all of those i have spoken to would have chosen an other destination in spain if they had known about the inflexability and stubborness of the catalan.
  I have heard comments that economy is slowing down in catalunya as foreign specialist prefere other destinations because of this imposition.
  Valencia seems to be growing...

  Posted by Lisa October 06, 2011 14:11:06

• Marginalising Spanish-speakers

  One of the main arguments of the pro-Catalan-language-schools camp is that, were there to be a choice, immigrant children would go to Spanish-language schools, never learn correct Catalan, and would then be marginalised in later life. None of them could be lawyers in Catalunya, where the language used in court is Catalan. Etcetera etcetera.
  
  And as everyone keeps pointing out, the kids who go to Catalan schools --according to exam results-- come out speaking and writing Spanish just as well (or badly...) as their counterparts in the rest of Spain.
  
  Visca Catalunya! Visca l'escola en català!
  
  (I am British, married to a fellow guiri by the way)

  Posted by Silvia October 06, 2011 13:48:18

• Spanish as a 'foreign' language.

  My daughter (adopted) has only been here a year, she's in 2º in a concertada. Her challenges are many and language of course is one. Her Catalan is miles ahead of her Spanish, and to be honest I don't think she is aware there is a 'difference', it's all just 'foreign' to her.
  That said, she is only doing 2 hours of Spanish tuition a week (same as English, same as most other schools) and to my mind a few mores hours of teaching IN Spanish would be helpful, say in medi or another subject.
  The disadvantages of the immersion model became screamingly obvious at a wedding we went to last week in Valencia. There were other kids there, mainly from Madrid. Whilst she could 'communicate' with them (on a basic, kiddy level), she got upset when they jibed her on her 'weird' way of speaking. I thought: here we are, three hours from Barcelona, in the same country, and language is an issue.
  I don't believe that the majority of parents in all schools is in agreement with the language 'model'--certainly not in our hood which has a high latin american population.. Politics has taken over common sense and debate, resulting in Generalitat's (and education department's) hysterical reaction to the Supreme Court's decision.
  And yes, I am taking Catalan classes in order to be able to help her with her homework ;)

  Posted by suzannewales@gmail.com October 06, 2011 13:27:02

• Catalan

  We live in Catalunya where the official language is Catalan. Statistically, children in Catalunya test better in written and spoken Spanish than those in Spain. For those nervous about helping young children with homework, the city hall offers free Catalan language classes...Language is inherent in keeping a culture alive and rich, and although the Spanish is responding to three (yes, only three) family's concerns, I think there are many other opportunities for the Spanish government to service the students and families in this region.

  Posted by October 06, 2011 13:12:55

• 50/50 would be fair

  I have had this discussion over and over again with my Catalan husband and friends (Catalan, Spanish and expat). I am American, a soon to be Mother of our first child and I would prefer that my daughter be taught equally in Spanish and Catalan. My husband and I are planning on speaking English and Spanish at home and feel that she will learn Catalan at daycare and later at school. I often worry how I will be able to help with her homework and how competitive my child will be be in the workforce if she masters Catalan and cannot write or speak well in English or Spanish. I am hopefull all will work out as you have stated and that mabye these three families can help change the law. We live in a global society and we need to give our children every opportunity to succeed. I am not sure only teaching in Catalan is the answer.

  Posted by Marisa October 06, 2011 10:03:37

• Choice would be good

  I think that the languages should be more balanced in schools. Ideally it would be good to have the choice of a castilian-speaking school, although I can see that would be tricky. My daughter (who is British) is 6 and she now speaks good Catalan but not very good Castilian. Because her dad and I both speak to her in English, she doesn't get much exposure to it. Also, we 're in a very Catalan-speaking area of the city. I imagine that in other areas a lot of the kids speak Castilian in the playground. I worried a lot about it all at the beginning but realise that you just have to go with it really.

  Posted by Sacha October 05, 2011 13:44:00